<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Gerd,<br><br></div>I guess I was a little to 'quick' with that example. ;-) Thanks for looking into this.<br><br></div>Ben<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gerd Petermann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gpetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com" target="_blank">gpetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Ben,<br><br>okay, I did not yet think about the case that the device knows in which direction you are currently driving<br>when it re-calculates a route. I did only consider the case that you are planning while standing still.<br>If I remember correctly, this case will produce a message like "please make a u-turn", <br>I never saw that it tells me to make a u-turn at a specific place.<br><br>It's not easy to test if Garmin uses this restriction (when written by mkgmap), I have to think <br>about it.<br>@Steve: Do you see these restrictions in Garmin maps?<br><br>Gerd<br>PS: Your example is not good, as Quick Avenue is a (wrong) oneway, but that shouldn't matter here ;-)<br><br><div><hr>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:50:30 +0200<div><div class="h5"><br>From: <a href="mailto:ben@bagu.org" target="_blank">ben@bagu.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk" target="_blank">mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk</a><br>Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] question about ignored no_u_turn restriction<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Gerd,<br><br></div>In this example, if you're travelling southbound on North Harlem Avenue and you miss your right turn onto Quick Avenue, the GPS might suggest that you make a u-turn at the North Harlem Avenue / Ontario Street intersection so that you can double back get back to your original route. The traffic rule is saying that you're not allowed to make a u-turn at this intersection and the OSM data is capturing the traffic rule correctly. <br><br></div>I've never been to this area so I can't actually test to see if the Garmin routing algorithm would try to do this u-turn. This is just an example that I'm using to try to figure if why the restriction is being ignored. I don't actually know the details Garmin routing algorithm but I have been routed on such u-turns in the past when I've missed a turn.<br><br></div>Given that this is a legitimate type of 'no u-turn' restriction, if the Garmin map format or routing algorithm can't deal with it, there should be a message that says so in the warning. In this case, maybe an info message makes more sense - but you should probably decide how you want to present it since you wrote it. :-) The other side of this is that the Garmin map format or routing algorithm can actually handle this specific type of 'no u-turn' restriction, in which case it would be nice to have the restriction included in the maps.<br><br></div>Thanks for your help and all your hard work on mkgmap!<br><br></div>Ben<br></div><div><br><div>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Gerd Petermann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gpetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com" target="_blank">gpetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">Hi Ben,<br><br>unfortunately I did not add a comment to that part of the source which would explain<br>why I coded it, but I think the reason is that the restriction has no effect on route calculation.<br>I can't think of any case where the Garmin algo would route you along that u-turn.<br>Do you have an example that proves this assumption to be wrong?<br><br>If not, I can change the msg to say something like "has no effect", or please suggest a better text.<br><br>Gerd<br><br><div><hr>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 13:34:12 +0200<div><div><br>From: <a href="mailto:ben@bagu.org" target="_blank">ben@bagu.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk" target="_blank">mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk</a><br>Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] question about ignored no_u_turn restriction<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div>Just to follow up ... Does anybody know concretely that the Garmin format cannot handle and u-turn restriction with the same from and two way?<br><br></div>Thanks, Ben<br></div><div><br><div>On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Ben Konrath <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ben@bagu.org" target="_blank">ben@bagu.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Anor,<br><br></div>Thanks for the tip but it seems that your suggestion breaks the OSM rule of manipulating the map for specific renderers (the renderer here being mkgmap). If the Garmin format truly doesn't support the u-turn restriction with the same to and from way at an intersection, we should come up with another solution.<span><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">Ben<br></font></span></div><div><div><div><br><div>On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 4:01 PM, A. Carlos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anorcarlos@hotmail.com" target="_blank">anorcarlos@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr"><br><div style="display:inline-block"><div><span></span></div></div><div><div> </div> </div> <div><div dir="ltr" style="zoom:1"><span lang="en"><span>Ben</span><br> <br> <span>There I</span> <span>draw</span> <span>two</span> <span>routes, one</span> <span>in each direction</span><span>, since</span> <span>there</span> <span>is</span> <span>a false</span> <span>median</span><span>, then</span> <span>with</span> <span>2-way</span><span>, it's easy</span> <span>for</span> <span>a restriction</span></span></div></div><br><br> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><font color="#ff0000"></font> <br><br><font color="#ff0000"><font style="background-color:#92d050"><u>_______________________________________________________________________________________________________</u></font></font><div><font color="#ff0000"><font style="background-color:#92d050"><u><br></u></font></font>
<p align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="5"><font style="background-color:#ffffff" color="#205867"><strong>Anor Co</strong></font><strong><font style="background-color:#ffffff" color="#ff0000"><font color="#205867">ncórdia SC </font></font></strong></font></font></p><p align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="5"><strong><font style="background-color:#ffffff" color="#ff0000"><font color="#205867"> </font></font></strong></font></font></p><br><p align="center"><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </p> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br></div><br><br><div><hr>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 15:53:50 +0200<br>From: <a href="mailto:ben@bagu.org" target="_blank">ben@bagu.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk" target="_blank">mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk</a><br>Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] question about ignored no_u_turn restriction<div><div><br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi Thorsten,<br><br></div>Thanks for your reply. This type of restriction is probably a country specific thing. In Ontario Canada, you can make u-turns at intersections (regardless of the road is separation) if there is no sign indicating that you can't make the u-turn. Here's the information directly from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation:<br><br><a href="http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.6.11.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.6.11.shtml</a><br><br></div>I realize that the link I sent previously is in the US but I suspect that it's the same policy there which is why the restriction is tagged like it is.<br><br></div>Since the tagging seems to be valid, does the Garmin format support this type of restriction? If not then it's probably a good idea to indicate this in the warning message. Maybe the message should also be changed to an info message if there's no problem with the data. Does anybody have other insights?<br><br></div>Thanks, Ben<br></div><div><br><div>On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Thorsten Kukuk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kukuk@suse.de" target="_blank">kukuk@suse.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On Sun, Jul 05, Ben Konrath wrote:<br>
<br>
> Does anybody know why this particular restriction is being ignored?<br>
<br>
</span>Beside that this particular type of restrictions doesn't make<br>
any sense to me, I would guess the GARMIN format does not support it.<br>
<br>
If the to and from ways are the same, I have never seen a sign forbidding<br>
u-turns. Only, if you have two ways, structural seperated. But then I<br>
should tag the street that way and the restriction will not be ignored.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Thorsten<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base<br>
SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany<br>
GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)<br>
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