[mkgmap-dev] unpaved roads

Wed Feb 8 12:48:23 GMT 2017

Carlos, I see your point.

Thank you,
Nuno Pedrosa.

> On 8 Feb 2017, at 12:15, Carlos Dávila <cdavilam at orangecorreo.es> wrote:
> 
> I don't see the point of that example. It's a place in the countryside, so people going there is probably aware they may need to travel over a track. Anyway, there's a paved road that leads you only 220 m away from Las Lomas, so you'll probably be able to reach the place even if unpaved roads are disabled in the GPS. I'm sorry, but I don't see the need to mark unpaved ways as paved.
> 
> El 08/02/17 a las 12:27, Nuno Pedrosa escribió:
>> Ok. But that will mean that in a generic map, a lot of places will be unroutable if the GPS is avoiding all unpaved roads. To reach them, the user will need to allow unpaved roads in the route. This will mean routing through sand roads and gravel roads alike.
>> It would be great if the GPS could handle semi-paved roads, as was mentioned, but it can't.
>> 
>> In a generic map, what will be most important? To reach the destination, or to avoid getting dirt in the car?
>> In Cadiz, Finca Las Lomas, s/n, 11179 Vejer de la Frontera, Cádiz, Spain, would be mostly unreachable if avoiding gravel roads.
>> https://www.google.pt/maps/place/Escuelas+Profesionales+de+la+Sagrada+Familia+Nuestra+Señora+del+Buen+Consejo+de+las+Lomas/@36.2938403,-5.8821947,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd0c5074acf746b9:0x32a4ea0ba5f0c3d!8m2!3d36.293836!4d-5.880006 <https://www.google.pt/maps/place/Escuelas+Profesionales+de+la+Sagrada+Familia+Nuestra+Se%C3%B1ora+del+Buen+Consejo+de+las+Lomas/@36.2938403,-5.8821947,17z/data=%213m1%214b1%214m5%213m4%211s0xd0c5074acf746b9:0x32a4ea0ba5f0c3d%218m2%213d36.293836%214d-5.880006>
>> There are lots of places like this.
>> 
>> A side-thought: paved roads aren’t always the best option for a given region. They are more expensive to build and when they degrade, they get “hard holes”(*) and fixing them up will usually create bumps in every hole. If the traffic is low, gravel roads will probably be a better option and better yet if rain is uncommon, as is the case in southern Europe.
>> 
>> Nuno Pedrosa
>> 
>> (*) by “hard holes”, I mean pot-holes where the edges are very steep and the wheels will crash into it. Gravel roads tend to create pot-holes with soft edges, a lot easier to drive over.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:39, Carlos Dávila <cdavilam at orangecorreo.es <mailto:cdavilam at orangecorreo.es>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't agree with you. I think default style is a generic style, and as such, it shouldn't do much guess but use the strict meaning of tags. Gravel, fine_gravel, ice, etc. are strictly unpaved and I would mark them as such in default style. More specific uses (mtb/race bicycle/4wd...) require specific maps and thus specific styles.
>>> @Mark: I'm also cyclist and for mtb use your "raining" point of view of paved/unpaved is important to be considered.
>>> 
>>> El 07/02/17 a las 11:57, Nuno Pedrosa escribió:
>>>> Hi! In Portugal, Spain and surely a little all around, unpaved gravel roads are common, even on urban neighbourhoods.
>>>> These are quite drivable and they will often be the only way to get to some places. They are also suitable to all vehicles, even if they will get covered in dirt.
>>>> There are also a lot of paths going through sand (forest roads) and these will unsuitable to most vehicles (even a lot of 4x4s), regardless of their width.
>>>> 
>>>> I find that while driving, the real issue will be the road conditions and width. Will the unpaved road be wide enough for a car or light truck? Will it have deep tracks due to soil erosion? Will the surface be solid enough to drive in a regular car?
>>>> 
>>>> So, in real world GPS usage, I would like unpaved to mean “narrow, earth roads”, while paved would mean any road suitable to all regular vehicles.
>>>> Example: due to wind farms being built in a lot of hill ranges, large, unpaved roads were built. These are gravel, wide roads, and often are a better option to the paved, sinuous mountain roads that go around every nook and cranny in the valleys.
>>>> 
>>>> So, I think that fine_gravel, salt and ice should still be “paved”.
>>>> 
>>>> Nuno Pedrosa.
>>>> 
>>>> PS: Sorry to “butt in” the talk. I’m usually silent in this list, though I read most of the discussions. Your work is amazing and I find that I can add little to what is being discussed, so I try to keep my “noise” to a minimum!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 Feb 2017, at 09:40, lig fietser <ligfietser at hotmail.com <mailto:ligfietser at hotmail.com><mailto:ligfietser at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd call that semi-paved but Garmin doesn't have such category unfortunately. Since the default style main focus is on motor vehicles I'd suggest to add surfaces like fine_gravel, salt, ice to the unpaved list. And please add soil to it, it seems a quite popular tag.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Gerd wrote
>>>>> This "raining" part is probably what paved/unpaved is about: The surface of a paved road should not change when it's raining
>>>>> and your vehicle will not be covered with dirt when traveling on a paved road while it is raining (at least not from dirt which was part of the surface).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you agree on that (last sentence)?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gerd
> 
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