[mkgmap-dev] change handling of railway=abandoned

Tue Jan 21 11:03:12 GMT 2020

Hi

Gerd rule should be OK with the addition clause of & highway!=*, but is
there any reason not to have what I suggested.

Ticker

On Tue, 2020-01-21 at 11:36 +0100, Bernhard Hiller wrote:
> Hi Gerd,
> of course, {deletealltags} is a different action: it removes the way
> completely. "{add access=no}" just makes it unroutable, but leaves it
> visible on the map.
> 
> Lte's take a look at the roads in my example (due to changes during
> the
> last couple of hours, be sure to look at last year's version):
> - the road to the south-west is a tertiary, without explicit access
> tags, and railway=razed:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/326001702/history
> - the road north-east into Meinershagen is a residential, without
> explicit access tags, and railway=razed:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/617284819/history
> - the road to the east is a primary, without explicit access tags,
> and
> railway=razed:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/306731105/history
> 
> True, there is another difference: railway=razed is not
> railway=abandoned. Can we be sure that all those tags used for
> indicating a former railway, like abandoned - dismantled - disused -
> razed etc., are always used correctly? I tried an overpass api search
> for railway=abandoned and highway=*, but could not find out how to do
> it
> correctly.
> 
> If those roads had railway=abandoned instead, they would no more be
> routable with your rule. Or is there some catch?
> 
> Let's look at some examples showing that railway=abandoned is not
> always
> used so strictly (or are milestones next to the way enough hints for
> the
> former presence of a railway?):
> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/121395347 has railway=abandoned,
> highway=path, with explicit access tags for foot and bicycle. I think
> the rule won't cause trouble here.
> 
> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/130369751 has railway=abandoned,
> path=cycleway, and an access tag for foot (but not for bicycle). I
> think
> the rule would then remove the access of bicycles to that cycleway.
> 
> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/101937226 has not yet been
> detected
> by the historic railway mappers, and lacks any railway tags. The rule
> won't do anything here ;-)
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/561220394 has railway=abandoned,
> path=cycleway, and access tags for foot and bicycle. The rule won't
> cause trouble here.
> 
> We should make sure that "access" won't be removed from highways with
> that rule.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Bernhard
> 
> 
> 
> Am 20.01.2020 um 19:49 schrieb Gerd Petermann:
> > Hi Bernhard,
> > 
> > well, {add access=no} is very different to action {deletealltags}
> > My thinking is that a railway=abandoned without highway=* still
> > might be used as a highway if a tag like foot=yes or bicycle=yes
> > exists.
> > Tickers idea should have more or less the same effect.
> > 
> > Gerd
> > 
> > ________________________________________
> > Von: Bernhard Hiller <bhil at gmx.de>
> > Gesendet: Montag, 20. Januar 2020 19:41
> > An: Gerd Petermann
> > Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] change handling of railway=abandoned
> > 
> > Hi Gerd,
> > "add access=no" is a very dangerous option.
> > In my style, I added a rule for removing such ways completely. And
> > it
> > failed terribly - today, there may be public roads on previous
> > railways.
> > See also my post in the forum at
> > https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=66451
> > Kind regards,
> > Bernhard
> > 
> > Am 18.01.2020 um 19:51 schrieb Gerd Petermann:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > the default style has this rule:
> > > # following really should be removed, but see: 
> > > http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/pipermail/mkgmap-dev/2016q3/025104.html
> > > railway«andoned [0x0a road_class=0 road_speed=1 resolution 22]
> > > 
> > > I agree with Ticker that it is not a good idea to make such a way
> > > routable. I would accept this when it has also a tag like
> > > bicycle=s. I found a few ways like this, e.g. 
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/122268824 (I wonder why nobody
> > > added a highway tag since 2011)
> > > BUT we should not assume access=s for a railway«andoned. So, what
> > > about this:
> > > railway«andoned {add access=no} [0x0a road_class=0 road_speed=1
> > > resolution 22]
> > > 
> > > Gerd
> > > 
> 
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