[mkgmap-dev] Garmin Topo Europe map

Mon Jan 4 06:01:18 GMT 2021

Eastern and Northern Europe are pretty big... I would say for a map that is
all of Europe - or at least full EU plus UK - covering all roads and
highway=track without NT format it will not work. And you would like at
least some polygons too - lakes, forest, urban area. And big rivers and
some more things. Going to resolution 23,21,19,17 vs 24,22,20,17 is
definitely worth it if its about the 4GB limit IMHO. also 23 resolution
maps will be faster than 24 resolution maps on the device. But more
important is of course that you reduce detail when it comes to map speed.

If it's about car navigation, I feel 23 is alright. When it comes to
foot/bicycle and so on - 24 is a must IMHO. However - who is still using
garmin devices for car navigation? then especially with OSM which in my
eyes misses too much for car navigation while it's advantages don't play
out at all when it comes to maps reduced for car routing. Hard nowadays to
compete with google maps.

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 04:47, DD8KQ <dd8kq at gmx.de> wrote:

> I do not think that Europe Map within 4 GB is out of question. I've
> managed to build a map with lets say Central Europe, which is in the range
> of about 3.3 Gb. See attached jpg for size and detail of the map.
>
> Hopefully the attachments will go into the list.
>
> Regards
> Am 03.01.2021 um 18:35 schrieb Felix Hartmann:
>
> Garmin city navigator maps use 23. Else a Europe map within 4GB is out of
> question. However they use NT format too, which is about 1/3 smaller
> additionally.
>
> Same I guess for their Topo Europe maps.
>
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021, 01:03 Pierre Brico <pierre.brico at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Karl,
>>
>> Thanks for your analysis, very instructive. I've tried several of your
>> steps and arrived at the conclusion that it's not a good idea to set the
>> resolution to 23. Here are the 2 main reasons:
>> 1. as you mentioned the map becomes less accurate, some roundabouts are
>> converted into triangles, some line segments are misaligned ...
>> 2. from the cgpsmapper guide: "IMG file should be created with Level 0
>> equal to 24 – otherwise distance calculation might be wrong"
>>
>> Do you know if the Garmin TopoActive map uses resolution 23 or 24 ?
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 8:21 AM 7770 <7770 at foskan.eu> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>> I made a few tests to lower the size of the maps.
>>>
>>> Comparison is made to my standard map which is based on the styles
>>> example in
>>> mkgmap but extended a bit for my purposes. This has 100 % size.
>>> There are 4 levels, 24 is the most detailed resolution.
>>>
>>> Setting the resolution to 23 and changing relevant polygons, lines,
>>> points to
>>> show at 23 instead of 24. 4 levels (option file).
>>> Size 78 %.
>>>
>>> Setting the resolution to 23 and changing relevant polygons, lines,
>>> points to
>>> show at 23 instead of 24. 3 levels (option file). levels = 0:23, 1:20,
>>> 2:18
>>> Size 64 %.
>>>
>>>
>>> Using my minimal style (discussed earlier in this thread).
>>> Compared to normal map, it is about 75 % in size.
>>>
>>> Using minimal style and
>>> Setting the resolution to 23 and changing relevant polygons, lines,
>>> points to
>>> show at 23 instead of 24. 4 levels (option file).
>>> Size 63 %.
>>>
>>> Using minimal style and
>>> Setting the resolution to 23 and changing relevant polygons, lines,
>>> points to
>>> show at 23 instead of 24. 3 levels (option file). levels = 0:23, 1:20,
>>> 2:18
>>> Size 51 %.
>>>
>>>
>>> I noted that when resolution is set to 23 polygons smaller than the
>>> mentioned
>>> raster at ~4.8 m disappear. They also do get distorted. Buildings are
>>> such
>>> polygons that are effected a lot, and it is (in my opinion) a good idea
>>> to
>>> disable buildings and similar polygons entirely when lowering the
>>> resolution.
>>> Coast lines and alike become less detailed of course.
>>> Some line segments have become a bit misaligned (i noted bus stop
>>> platforms
>>> and similar short lines can have this issue).
>>>
>>>
>>> I yet have to check how well these maps work on a unit but it seems
>>> possible
>>> to lower the size quite a lot if it is desired.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On onsdag 30 december 2020 kl. 13:27:06 CET Vuki wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > am also working on a "lite" style and there may be some nice idea in
>>> yours
>>> > to use :) will check that out, thanks!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Köszi:
>>> > Vuki
>>> > On 2020.12.30. 12:08, 7770 wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi.
>>> > I am ok with sharing the style, but i was not able to do it until today
>>> > (planned today or tomorrow).
>>> > 5 files attached, 4 related to style, 1 to TYP (foskan.txt).
>>> > Only those 4 style files have changes, compared to the standard.
>>> >
>>> > The complete set of files is ./mkgmap-rNNNN/examples/styles/default/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There is nothing fancy nor complex, nor have i played around with the
>>> levels
>>> > yet.
>>> >
>>> > For reference i also added my TYP-file, which may help in case you
>>> find some
>>> > type codes which are non standard (there might be a few). The type
>>> file is
>>> > shared and does contain a few things that are not used by the minimal
>>> style
>>> > (don't get confused).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Summery of the style, which is based on the default mkgmap example.
>>> > All changes comments are marked with ## to be able to tell them apart
>>> from
>>> > regular comments given after #.
>>> >
>>> > polygons and points do have a lot of disabled information.
>>> > Buildings, shops, and most of the parking types are disables.
>>> >
>>> > lines doesn't have as many changes and probably a few more small
>>> waterways
>>> > (streams, rapids, waterfalls) can be disabled to remove yet a bit of
>>> data.
>>> >
>>> > note for polygons.
>>> > Waters and forests are still visible, since it adds information to the
>>> map,
>>> > but if natural objects are not important for you, there is more space
>>> to
>>> > save.
>>> >
>>> > i have made one change in lines file to display the road name on
>>> tertiary
>>> > roads instead of the reference. this does make sense in nordic
>>> countries,
>>> > where tertiary roads are usually only referred to with the name.
>>> >
>>> > Ski lifts (arealways in general) are set in similar way as railroads.
>>> >
>>> > One last thing to mention is that i have updated the inc/address file.
>>> > Close to the end there is a section in which the mkgmap:phone is
>>> updated to
>>> > show information about which fuels are sold at fuel stations. This is
>>> not
>>> > fully complete for all fuel types but the ones i somehow considered
>>> > important. Depending on where one is, a few more fuel types can easily
>>> be
>>> > added.
>>> >
>>> > A note.
>>> > The mkgmap:phone seems to be 50 characters maximum, longer data will be
>>> > truncated and not shown on the device it seems.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards and happy new year!
>>> > Karl
>>> >
>>> > On onsdag 30 december 2020 kl. 10:16:51 CET Vuki wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi Karl,
>>> >
>>> > don't you want to share your minimal style? :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Köszi:
>>> > Vuki
>>> > On 2020.12.27. 20:59, 7770 wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi.
>>> > A few observations about the TopoActive europe map. (i have it on a
>>> GPSMAP
>>> > 66st).
>>> >
>>> > The map is rendered slower than most custom made maps.
>>> > Updates occur 2 times per year, but even at those times many changes
>>> to OSM
>>> > are not present. Perhaps they only update some parts yearly.
>>> > Points lack all kind of additional information which other mappers add
>>> > (opening hours, region, phone numbers, etc.).
>>> > One nice thing is colour marked national parks and reserves.
>>> > Being an outdoor map, it lacks some information about shelters in the
>>> > wilderness.
>>> > Routing is possible only for outdoor activities (cycle, walk, hike,
>>> direct),
>>> > automotive routing (car, motorcycle) is disabled.
>>> >
>>> > I have tried creating a minimal style. This lowers the data to about
>>> 75 % or
>>> > my normal set up. But i did not change the level, which i will try :-)
>>> > Currently I am no way near the compression which TopoActive achieves.
>>> Using
>>> > input data which is about 6,7 GB in pbf format, creates a gmapsupp just
>>> > below 4 GB for normal and around 3 GB for minimal style. These numbers
>>> > feels similar to getting France into 1.9 GB from 3.7 GB pbf
>>> (geofabrik).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The minimal set up is not very fancy at all, it disables things not
>>> wanted.
>>> > Buildings, shops, most of parkings, and a bit more.
>>> >
>>> > Today i cannot send off any style, but in case that would be of
>>> interest let
>>> > me know and i can share it in a few days (guessing Wednesday or
>>> Thursday).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> > Karl
>>> >
>>> > On söndag 27 december 2020 kl. 20:08:10 CET Gerd Petermann wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi Pierre,
>>> >
>>> > my first guess would be that the level 0 is at resolution 23 instead
>>> of 24.
>>> >
>>> > Gerd
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________
>>> > Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces at lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag
>>> von
>>> > Pierre Brico <pierre.brico at gmail.com> Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Dezember
>>> 2020
>>> > 19:37
>>> > An: Development list for mkgmap
>>> > Betreff: [mkgmap-dev] Garmin Topo Europe map
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hello guys,
>>> >
>>> > I've just discovered the Garmin TopoActive Europe map based on
>>> OpenStreetMap
>>> > data. This map is sold at a price of 50€ or is pre-installed on some
>>> new
>>> > devices. I've just seen it on the device of one of my friends and it
>>> looks
>>> > very good. I'm surprised to see that for West Europe, it takes only
>>> 2.8GB
>>> > and is quite complete (index for search, routable, ...).
>>> >
>>> > For now, I generate my own maps based on your excellent tool but the
>>> result
>>> > is much bigger (1.9GB only for France with probably more details). So,
>>> my
>>> > question is: does anybody have a similar configuration (style files and
>>> > command line) to obtain a result like the Garmin TopoActive Europe ?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Pierre
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > mkgmap-dev at lists.mkgmap.org.uk
>>> > http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>>
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-- 
Felix Hartman - Openmtbmap.org & VeloMap.org
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